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	<title>Comments on: how to use email</title>
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	<link>http://dan.hersam.com/2002/08/28/how-to-use-email/</link>
	<description>A computer programmer&#039;s commentary on news, Linux, programming, music, web design, trivia, humor, usability and whatever else strikes his fancy at the time.</description>
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		<title>By: Renee</title>
		<link>http://dan.hersam.com/2002/08/28/how-to-use-email/comment-page-1/#comment-372</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=367#comment-372</guid>
		<description>Speaking of HTML emails, are you plagued with some coworkers that download those dubious programs to add images and icons and 8 gazillion smilies to emails?  I am.  And those things are spyware. They&#039;ve had to remove them because they were chronically popping up ads.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of HTML emails, are you plagued with some coworkers that download those dubious programs to add images and icons and 8 gazillion smilies to emails?  I am.  And those things are spyware. They&#8217;ve had to remove them because they were chronically popping up ads.</p>
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		<title>By: Levi</title>
		<link>http://dan.hersam.com/2002/08/28/how-to-use-email/comment-page-1/#comment-371</link>
		<dc:creator>Levi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=367#comment-371</guid>
		<description>Whether widespread adoption of something makes it correct or not is largely a matter of philosophy, but it IS the philosophy by which the free software/open source community works.  As I mentioned before, both MIME and HTML MIME messages are specified in RFCs, which are basically community consensus documents rather than standards imposed by an outside governing body.

The arguments you cited work against ALL MIME encodings, not just HTML.  Thus, if you use those arguments against HTML, you must also discard attachments of all sorts, since they use MIME.  I really don&#039;t think you want to cripple email like that.

Arguments based on size and bandwidth may have held some water a few years ago, but space and bandwidth are now pretty cheap.  Your argument that HTML is objectively incorrect because you don&#039;t like it is silly.  Also, you never answered my points about the increased aesthetic and structural control that HTML provides.  

Hey, if you want to continue disliking HTML email, that&#039;s fine with me, and I won&#039;t try to talk you out of it.  If you want to claim that it&#039;s objectively &lt;i&gt;wrong&lt;/i&gt;, though, you&#039;ll have to make a real case for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether widespread adoption of something makes it correct or not is largely a matter of philosophy, but it IS the philosophy by which the free software/open source community works.  As I mentioned before, both MIME and HTML MIME messages are specified in RFCs, which are basically community consensus documents rather than standards imposed by an outside governing body.</p>
<p>The arguments you cited work against ALL MIME encodings, not just HTML.  Thus, if you use those arguments against HTML, you must also discard attachments of all sorts, since they use MIME.  I really don&#8217;t think you want to cripple email like that.</p>
<p>Arguments based on size and bandwidth may have held some water a few years ago, but space and bandwidth are now pretty cheap.  Your argument that HTML is objectively incorrect because you don&#8217;t like it is silly.  Also, you never answered my points about the increased aesthetic and structural control that HTML provides.  </p>
<p>Hey, if you want to continue disliking HTML email, that&#8217;s fine with me, and I won&#8217;t try to talk you out of it.  If you want to claim that it&#8217;s objectively <i>wrong</i>, though, you&#8217;ll have to make a real case for it.</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://dan.hersam.com/2002/08/28/how-to-use-email/comment-page-1/#comment-370</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2004 06:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=367#comment-370</guid>
		<description>Although outnumbered, I still maintain that I rarely see a useful HTML e-mail.  I prefer having images attached rather than embedding them right in the e-mail, and URLs can be sent plain text quite easily.  In fact, many text e-mail clients will permit you to click on URLs.

I understand that I&#039;m not a typical e-mail user, but just because lots of people use HTML doesn&#039;t make it correct.  I don&#039;t know of a single e-mail client that doesn&#039;t handle plain text, and a quick explanation on how to attach files doesn&#039;t seem too hard for non-technical users.

Plus, users with size limits on their inboxes would benefit from smaller sized e-mails.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although outnumbered, I still maintain that I rarely see a useful HTML e-mail.  I prefer having images attached rather than embedding them right in the e-mail, and URLs can be sent plain text quite easily.  In fact, many text e-mail clients will permit you to click on URLs.</p>
<p>I understand that I&#8217;m not a typical e-mail user, but just because lots of people use HTML doesn&#8217;t make it correct.  I don&#8217;t know of a single e-mail client that doesn&#8217;t handle plain text, and a quick explanation on how to attach files doesn&#8217;t seem too hard for non-technical users.</p>
<p>Plus, users with size limits on their inboxes would benefit from smaller sized e-mails.</p>
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		<title>By: Cameron</title>
		<link>http://dan.hersam.com/2002/08/28/how-to-use-email/comment-page-1/#comment-369</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2004 03:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=367#comment-369</guid>
		<description>I have to side with Levi here. My feelings are that on mailing lists and such, one shouldn&#039;t use html mail, but most users nowadays use html-enabled clients and some messages (such as informative ones with tables), are vastly better than plain text.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to side with Levi here. My feelings are that on mailing lists and such, one shouldn&#8217;t use html mail, but most users nowadays use html-enabled clients and some messages (such as informative ones with tables), are vastly better than plain text.</p>
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		<title>By: Levi</title>
		<link>http://dan.hersam.com/2002/08/28/how-to-use-email/comment-page-1/#comment-368</link>
		<dc:creator>Levi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=367#comment-368</guid>
		<description>When does textual communication ever NEED fancy formatting?  But surely you wouldn&#039;t argue against the aesthetic improvements in the World Wide Web since the early days of web browsers and HTML.  They were functionally complete, allowing textual information, images, and hyperlinks.  But web pages sure look at lot nicer these days, even if there are a lot of awful abuses of the greater display control.

I think the point you&#039;re missing is that you and I are not the primary users of email.  The average email user uses either a web-based email system or Outlook, both of which interpret HTML automatically.  They want to be able to send URLs and images to their friends.  They want to personalize their correspondence.  HTML email makes it possible for them to do so easily.  It also happens to be abused by spammers, but if we cut off every form of media that was abused by advertisers, we wouldn&#039;t have much left, would we?

Also, the nutcase was not only arguing against HTML, he was arguing against all MIME encodings in email.  I&#039;m not quite sure how that fits with his desire to have all of the internet accessible through email, but that&#039;s what he says.  No attachments, no PGP encryption, etc.  No thanks, I like evolution and progress in my computer systems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When does textual communication ever NEED fancy formatting?  But surely you wouldn&#8217;t argue against the aesthetic improvements in the World Wide Web since the early days of web browsers and HTML.  They were functionally complete, allowing textual information, images, and hyperlinks.  But web pages sure look at lot nicer these days, even if there are a lot of awful abuses of the greater display control.</p>
<p>I think the point you&#8217;re missing is that you and I are not the primary users of email.  The average email user uses either a web-based email system or Outlook, both of which interpret HTML automatically.  They want to be able to send URLs and images to their friends.  They want to personalize their correspondence.  HTML email makes it possible for them to do so easily.  It also happens to be abused by spammers, but if we cut off every form of media that was abused by advertisers, we wouldn&#8217;t have much left, would we?</p>
<p>Also, the nutcase was not only arguing against HTML, he was arguing against all MIME encodings in email.  I&#8217;m not quite sure how that fits with his desire to have all of the internet accessible through email, but that&#8217;s what he says.  No attachments, no PGP encryption, etc.  No thanks, I like evolution and progress in my computer systems.</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://dan.hersam.com/2002/08/28/how-to-use-email/comment-page-1/#comment-367</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2004 05:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=367#comment-367</guid>
		<description>I rarely (if ever) receive HTML e-mail that really needs to use HTML, and that&#039;s my biggest issue with it.  Spammers have a need to use it because they can add images to track who reads it and to be able to make text larger and more annoying.  I don&#039;t see the need for regular e-mails to have colors and different font sizes, but maybe that&#039;s just me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I rarely (if ever) receive HTML e-mail that really needs to use HTML, and that&#8217;s my biggest issue with it.  Spammers have a need to use it because they can add images to track who reads it and to be able to make text larger and more annoying.  I don&#8217;t see the need for regular e-mails to have colors and different font sizes, but maybe that&#8217;s just me.</p>
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		<title>By: Levi</title>
		<link>http://dan.hersam.com/2002/08/28/how-to-use-email/comment-page-1/#comment-366</link>
		<dc:creator>Levi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2004 01:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=367#comment-366</guid>
		<description>Um, sure, that all makes sense if you&#039;re living in the early days of the internet, like he is apparently still trying to do.  I found a page a while ago that rebutted all the major arguments against HTML email, but I don&#039;t recall where it was. I also ran into an RFC a while ago for HTML-in-email, so it&#039;s on the standards track.   Those 6 reasons really don&#039;t hold much water these days.

If you look at this guy&#039;s main page on his domain, he is (or was) advocating full use of the internet through email.  He includes gopher-by-email, and no one has used gopher for years.  Thank goodness he&#039;s seen the light and is no longer pursuing his email-only campaign.  He is, instead, cycling and enjoying being retired.  I am envious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, sure, that all makes sense if you&#8217;re living in the early days of the internet, like he is apparently still trying to do.  I found a page a while ago that rebutted all the major arguments against HTML email, but I don&#8217;t recall where it was. I also ran into an RFC a while ago for HTML-in-email, so it&#8217;s on the standards track.   Those 6 reasons really don&#8217;t hold much water these days.</p>
<p>If you look at this guy&#8217;s main page on his domain, he is (or was) advocating full use of the internet through email.  He includes gopher-by-email, and no one has used gopher for years.  Thank goodness he&#8217;s seen the light and is no longer pursuing his email-only campaign.  He is, instead, cycling and enjoying being retired.  I am envious.</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://dan.hersam.com/2002/08/28/how-to-use-email/comment-page-1/#comment-365</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=367#comment-365</guid>
		<description>I just found a site that gives &lt;a href=&quot;http://expita.com/nomime.html&quot;&gt;six reasons not to use HTML in your e-mail&lt;/a&gt; and it reminded me of the discussion on this entry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just found a site that gives <a href="http://expita.com/nomime.html">six reasons not to use HTML in your e-mail</a> and it reminded me of the discussion on this entry.</p>
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		<title>By: Levi</title>
		<link>http://dan.hersam.com/2002/08/28/how-to-use-email/comment-page-1/#comment-364</link>
		<dc:creator>Levi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Aug 2002 10:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=367#comment-364</guid>
		<description>As I&#039;ve argued before elsewhere, it really wouldn&#039;t be that difficult for the maintainers of terminal-based email clients to add html support.  I think they refuse to do so for the same reasons which have compelled Dan to complain about it here.    Developers of free software tend to be a stubborn, idealistic bunch.  Once they dig in their heels against something, it&#039;s hardly worth trying to change their minds.  I&#039;ll write more about my thoughts on email later, now I must sleep.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I&#8217;ve argued before elsewhere, it really wouldn&#8217;t be that difficult for the maintainers of terminal-based email clients to add html support.  I think they refuse to do so for the same reasons which have compelled Dan to complain about it here.    Developers of free software tend to be a stubborn, idealistic bunch.  Once they dig in their heels against something, it&#8217;s hardly worth trying to change their minds.  I&#8217;ll write more about my thoughts on email later, now I must sleep.</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://dan.hersam.com/2002/08/28/how-to-use-email/comment-page-1/#comment-363</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Aug 2002 01:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=367#comment-363</guid>
		<description>I understand your point, and respectfully disagree as a devil&#039;s advocate ;)

When email was first used, HTML didn&#039;t even exist.  I don&#039;t know of any official declaration that all email clients have to be able to support HTML.  I actually don&#039;t mind it too much, but I prefer that people do it for a reason rather than sending all their emails in HTML that are nothing but plain text wrapped in HTML tags.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand your point, and respectfully disagree as a devil&#8217;s advocate <img src='http://dan.hersam.com/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>When email was first used, HTML didn&#8217;t even exist.  I don&#8217;t know of any official declaration that all email clients have to be able to support HTML.  I actually don&#8217;t mind it too much, but I prefer that people do it for a reason rather than sending all their emails in HTML that are nothing but plain text wrapped in HTML tags.</p>
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